Hi, my name is Peter, and I am nice

[Peter Kai]

Hi,

my name is Peter and I am nice. No, that's not my pickup line, that's my problem!
I'd describe myself as smart, reasonably attractive and of good physique, I know how to listen (as a medical student, you should be able to do that) and how to steer a conversation (I'm also in a leading position in the student guild). After browsing Attractolgy, reading a lot of articles and trying to apply a lot of the stuff written here, I still fail.

"Nice" is often associated with "boring", which I am not, I do heaps of crazy stuff, I disagree with people, I have my own opinion on most topics you can talk about.
There is this article: http://www.seduction-blog.com/2008_01_01_archive.html
I usually don't plan nice things. They just come to my mind. When I come across a lilac on the way to the date, I pick a flower for her, but I don't bring flowers to every date. I also don't buy her stuff regulary or invite her for dinner or whatever. I try to make nice things special things, which aren't available unless I wish to do them.
Yet I get turned down every time, usually after I made out with her. I might also have sex with her, but the next day, or the next time we meet she says: "Peter, you are a really nice guy, but I think we should just be friends". It doesn't matter what I do then, I've seen girls who cried their eyes out when I didn't agree to that horse-trade, who did anything to save the friendship, but who wouldn't date me. If somebody hurts me like this, I am be rejectful and mean (I am human after all) but still they go to great length to stay in contact and stay friends with me. They talk about soulmateship, and that I am the only guy they can talk to like this, and then they tell me how dumb their other boyfriends were and what a great experience it is to know me and how it is just possible that I don't have a girlfriend, because everything is so great about me, but they just don't love me.

Now how come I think that being nice is the problem? Maybe I'm just too dull to think of anything else. On the other hand, I just have to take a look at the guys the girls date before or after me. They are either jerks or morons, or both. I even made a bet with once, that the next guy she's going to fall in love with is a jerk. I won.
Recently I had a conversation with a acquaintance, who asked me (out of the blue), how it was going with my latest girl. (I don't know her that well, I actually didn't want to discuss my lovelive with her, so I answered, truthfully:
Me: I'm nice.
She: So?
Me: It's the worst attribute a guy can have.
She (and this is no joke!): True! You know I so often meet guys who are like the man of my dreams, somebody who I would immediately marry. Really attractive, interesting and kind guys, with whom I can spend a really great time, but I never fall in love with them. I really tried, but there are just no feelings. And then I meet some jerk and end up getting hurt.
Turns out she is not as stupid as I imagined her, and at the same time, far more stupid than I thought.

I have a friend who is really good at picking up girls. He tells me that I am too nice, that I care too much, invest too much energy and time into the girl. He told me that I should just not care about her and she will come and seek me out, but if I every let slip, that I am interested in her, she will reject me.

What kind of logic is this? That would mean I always get what I don't want, but never what I want. If I care, it's not going to happen, and if I don't, it's going to happen, but I don't f***ing care!
Not that human relationship make much sense, but wow... Maybe my problem is not being nice after all, maybe it's being honest.
In order to get a girl you have to be either a jerk or a liar?
What is wrong with meeting a girl, getting along great and having a relationship, like when I was young?

Seriously, it still doesn't make any sense to me and I am still wondering why I'm even posting this. Let's just see what kind of reactions I get...

[Gabe, aka Prof.]

Hi Peter, I hope we can get some good discussion going about this because I think this is a problem a lot of guys have, you aren't alone. Right now you're thinking that in order to keep a girl interested you are going to have to be a jerk or a liar because every time you are the nice guy (which I believe you really want to be) the women walk or give you the "let's just be friends" routine. A relationship stuck in friend zone is based on having comfort and trust with a woman, but lacks chemistry or attraction.

It's time to ramp up the sexual tension from the very beginning and make her pursue you! I can assure you that by creating the right sexual energy in every interaction you will never get stuck in friend zone again. Enticing her to pursue you is not being a jerk or a liar, it is done by having options of women in your life and highly valuing your own time.

When someone makes themselves overly available to a person they are attracted to, especially in the beginning stages of attraction, this over availability can cause the opposite desired reaction to occur. Someone overly available has lower value than someone not in such abundance. If the woman you are trying to attract believes that you are highly desired by others, hence you’re demand outweighs your supply, then your value will go up.

Some Helpful Articles:
Avoiding Friend Zone
Cat String Theory
Why Nice Guys Finish Last
Sexual Tension & Mixed Signals

[dthomas]

What's up Peter,

You know it was really interesting reading your post because a lot of the issues you are dealing with are felt by a ton of guys. I can remember a time in my life when I too, was the "nice" best friend who girls would talk to and hang out with but never date. So, first of all, understand that this problem is much more universal than it may seem.

Essentially there is nothing wrong with being a nice, genuine, good person. I am. My friends are and basically all of the people I associate with damn good people. And they can get just about any girl they want.

But before I go into why and how this is possible, consider this...

There are basically two modes of the mind; Emotions for what we feel and logic for how we understand, communicate, and make sense of the world. These two modes of the mind have very different ideas of what attraction is and how it happens. Attraction is essentially an emotional response that we have little control over. We get that "feeling" and act on it accordingly. As the one the greatest dating experts David DeAngelo says "attraction isn't a choice," this really is the case. It's not a choice at all. It's a response. However, the problem as you so mentioned in your post is that women will often say they want one thing and do another. But in a way, it does make sense. Logically, A women THINKS she wants a nice guy who won't cheat, argue and will basically treat her like a princess. Maybe this is because of childhood fantasies of a knight in shining and armor. Maybe it was the way she was socially conditioned by her environment. But whatever the case, a women can think she wants something but ACT on something completely different.

So why doesn't being nice spark any attraction?

Kindness in itself breeds AFFECTION. The same affection that girl might feel for her best girlfriend, she will fee for you simply because the relationships are synonymously rooted. They are rooted in emotional yet nonsexual feelings. It would be like how you feel for your Mother. Do you love her? Of course. Do you have sexual feelings for her? Absolutely not! And although both affection and attraction are both vitally important to a healthy relationship between a couple, you can't expect affection to have the same effect as attraction. And by expecting 'niceness' to be enough in attracting women is assuming that AFFECTION and ATTRACTION are one and the same, which is simply not true.

However, women aren't fully lying to themselves when they say they want a good guy. Most of them do and will eventually settle down with a guy who is NICE and ATTRACTIVE.

So how can you be NICE And still be attractive?

See when you are being overly nice, an attribute you so eloquently described yourself as having, you tend to conform to the reality of others and comply with whatever they want EXPECTING her to like you in return. In other words, your world, your beliefs, convictions, and sense of self are not as strong and thus you seek to strengthen it by entering her world. When this happens your niceness, your giving, complying or whatever is a form of WANTING. Of wanting her to feel feelings for you, of wanting her to accept you, of wanting her to make you happy or complete you in some way. And women can sense this neediness and insecurity -even if it comes through in acts of BEING NICE

See, women are emotionally hardwired to respond to a man who lives in his own world, has a solidified belief system and doesn't put up with crap from other people. You have to live in your world and find value in yourself and what you do. This is more than just having your own opinion. This is being in sync with who you are, recognizing what you're capable of and having a direction to move in. And when you do this, you find your personal well being skyrockets without having it depend on other people. Niceness and doing nice things becomes NOT a act of trying to GET something but a reflection of how you feel on the inside.

Really take a look at why you are doing so many nice things. Is it because you enjoy seeing other people happy? Maybe....but it also could be because you are at core level expecting these things to bring you something in return -a relationship? sex? fulfillment? When you take this wanting out of the equation and you have EVERYTHING you already could ever want or need, when you feel wholly complete, you will naturally NOT CARE how a women responds to you. You don't NEED her to make you feel good because you already feel good.

So you've got the concepts, but how does this specifically manifest in interacting with women? When you communicate with a women you also must understand that attraction HAPPENS first. You have to make her feel. You have to activate that Attraction RESPONSE. This can be done a variety of ways but always keep in mind you need to move her emotions. Get her laughing, smiling,holding eye contact, allowing you to touch her, and all other types of ways you build attraction. The undertone of any relationship begins with the first interaction. How that interaction plays out will hugely dictate the theme of that relationship. SO if you create attraction and she is SHOWING signs that SHE is interested, then you can open up more and reveal the kind gentle soul that you are. But getting that attraction first is extremely important. SO I would say, rather than just doing nice things when first interact with a women, try teasing her, busting her balls, telling her 'NO' playfully, and the other OUTER GAME techniques to get attraction. But know, like I've said a million times, if you have the right mindset, those things will arise out of you naturally. Hope this helps
-Briddick (Dthomas)